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VOICE OVER: This is Alumni Aloud, a podcast by Graduate Center students for Graduate Center students. In each episode we talk with a GC graduate about their career path, the ins and outs of their current position, and the career advice they have for students. This series is sponsored by the Graduate Center’s Office of Career Planning & Professional Development. 

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ABBIE TURNER, HOST: I’m Abbie Turner, a PhD candidate in Educational Psychology at The Graduate Center. I work in our Office of Career Planning and Professional Development and I interviewed Dr. Astrid Rodriguez who currently works at NYU managing the implantation of Student Success Initiatives in Enrollment Management. I’m talking with Astrid Rodriguez today, who graduated from our Educational Psychology PhD program at The Graduate Center. And she’s going to be speaking about her work experience while in graduate school and then how she moved on and began her career in higher education administration. And she’s also done a little bit of consulting and she can talk about how all of that has kind of been part of her journey. So hi Astrid! Thank you for doing the interview today.  

ASTRID RODRIGUEZ, GUEST: Hi Abby, thank you for having me, it’s my pleasure! 

TURNER: So tell us about, if you’ve got professional experience in graduate school, maybe give us a little overview of that and then what did you do when you left The Graduate Center for work? 

RODRIGUEZ: Of course. So you know, early on I was pursuing my graduate studies, I worked at the Brooklyn Navy Yard Development Corporation. Some of you may know of that. The Navy Yard is an industrial park located in Brooklyn and it had over 300 companies at the time. I was an IT administrator and my task was to develop and implement the first fully integrated information system. And during that time I also worked at The Graduate Center through service-based fellowships. So I was within the department of Educational Psychology and I assisted with any admissions or recruitment related processes and served in various full-rank faculty search committees. And I also worked for the Center for Latin American, Caribbean and Latino studies, doing research related to social, economic and demographic changes in New York City. And so I’m very fond of those experiences. And special thanks to Rhonda Palant and Larry Berget if they listen to this podcast.  

And you know the knowledge I developed through all of those experiences—IT in the Navy Yard, developing databases, doing research combined with the schoolwork, the experiences with admissions and recruitment with Rhonda and Laird Bergad at the Center for Latin American, Caribbean and Latino studies really allowed me to have an opportunity to join Baruch College as an analyst before finishing my degree. You know, I was really looking forward to joining the professoriate after completing my studies. And I thought that it would be terrific to work at a college and gain a deeper understanding of their culture and their operations. And so I was thrilled to have joined Baruch at the time and in some way give back to CUNY. 

TURNER: So you continued with Baruch after you got the doctorate, correct? 

RODRIGUEZ: Correct, correct. Soon after I finished graduate school, I began seaching and applying for tenure-track teaching positions. But opportunities were very limited so I decided to broaden my scope if you will. And also look for administrative opportunities in higher ed as well. And it wasn’t long after I graduated that I was offered the opportunity to lead enrollment management efforts at Baruch College and so I was happy to do so.  

TURNER: Ok and that’s sort of been your biggest admin role, this enrollment management. So can you explain to us what that entails because some people not even know that this exists. *laughs* 

RODRIGUEZ: *laughs* The truth is I didn’t know it existed.  

TURNER: Right! 

RODRIGUEZ: In a sentence, if I had to put it in a sentence, enrollment management is truly all the strategic efforts that an institution does in the areas of recruitment and retention, that are connected to the institution’s mission and strategic plan, given whatever resources they have and the environment. And that includes recruitment, financial aid, administration and records, your bursar office, your support services, your academic areas. Many of the areas of the university if you can imagine really impact student persistence. And hence the strategic efforts are what’s called enrollment management.  

TURNER: And this will be something that exists in all colleges across the country?   

RODRIGUEZ: Yes, that is correct. And if you were to assess the different organizational structures of colleges across the United States, for instance, we have approximately 5,000 colleges, universities. You will see that many of them have enrollment management, however, many of them call it student affairs, student success. So it could be enrollment services or student development. It could be a mix of titles but the essence of the work is the same.  

TURNER: Got it. Those sound familiar as well, yeah. Ok so what kinds of professional experiences… you said, I know you said you were working at Baruch while you were in graduate school and doing the dissertation I assume. You were first an analyst at Baruch? 

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. 

TURNER: Ok, how did that experience contribute to like your professional skills or you know, what did you gain from your initial employment at Baruch that you’re still using today? 

RODRIGUEZ: Well, truly having that quantitative, those skills in the quantitative area and the ability to really be able to analyze and interpret data. It’s really fundamental to the work of an enrollment manager. And that was really core to the work that I did ten years, fifteen years ago and the work that I do today. Really understanding patterns. 

TURNER: So what was your, kind of, progression through the ranks like? Did you apply for it? Were you recommended for it? How did that work? 

RODRIGUEZ: Yes, like any other position that I’ve held over the past fifteen years, it’s really a cold application. So yes, I had to submit my letter of interest and my CV like every other candidate for the position. And interviewed and competed with other candidates for the position. 

TURNER: Ok, being an analyst, were you in the same department-is that right? 

RODRIGUEZ: Yes, I was in the same department. 

TURNER: Ok, so being an analyst, you knew that this was something you really liked and you wanted to go for the next level. 

RODRIGUEZ: Correct. You know, it’s interesting because as I was, you know… while being an analyst at Baruch College, I really learned about the impact that an administrator has in a student’s life, you know. Which is what drove me to want to be a professor in the first place. I am very passionate about education and about inspiring others to, you know, pursue education and I’ve found that as an administrator, I can do just that while being an analyst. And so when the position for Director of Enrollment Management opened up at Baruch College, I was really eager to apply. Because I knew that in that position I can truly make an impact in the lives of the students that we served.  

TURNER: And, let’s see so… Let’s talk about what your typical day is like. Do you have a typical day? Is it more like a typical week? What are some of the tasks you have to get done? What are the meetings like? Kind of like, the logistics of being in higher education administration. 

RODRIGUEZ: Well, I would say that there is really no typical day. Although I usually my Monday mornings looking at what it is that I need to accomplish for the week. Make a list of all the things that I want to do and then prioritize that list. And once that’s done a typical week is really having communications and meetings with different partners and collaborating with others about how to get the work done. So it’s facilitating the communications among different offices and staff members to really deliver what’s important for the week. 

TURNER: Now can you explain a little bit more detail about like, what kinds of tasks would you be completing throughout the week? And like, what do your big projects look like as an administrator. 

RODRIGUEZ: Well in general, if I were to think about my experiences in enrollment management and what is it that I do. I would characterize it as being a partner to executive leadership. Really providing the subject matter expertise and a consultative literature for planning, guiding, and evaluating initiatives, business processes and policies. For example, in my various roles, I’ve developed long-range enrollment goals aligned with overall budget goals for the university. Revised admissions models for recruitment purposes and admissions purposes, planned and implemented financial aid strategies and conducted analytics and enrollment-related research to support academic advisement, marketing and communications and retention efforts. And I also serve on critical committees including executive searches for instance, as well as the Middle States accreditation. So it is a little bit of a very tactical, detailed work but also more of big-picture strategic conversation with partners across the university. 

TURNER: And now hearing about those specific kinds of projects that you work on, what kind of people might be attracted to this work? It sounds like I’m hearing a lot of repetition around analytical skills, which fortunately a lot of PhD students have this. But can you think of something else that might attract a student to this kind of work? 

RODRIGUEZ: Certainly. You know, in my experience I would say that there are many competencies and proficiencies that are required to excel as a practitioner in the area. For example, the ability to identify opportunities for change to allow for greater efficiencies. Along with the ability to recommend and design, as well as implement and assess the changes that you’re making, is important. Being able to collaborate with others in decision-making and be mature and understanding that you’re preferred course of action may not always be pursued. Being able to design, analyze and interpret data, as you mentioned, as well as adapting your approach when communicating the results to different audiences is very helpful.  

But if I had to name the top three skills, you’d be surprised, they’re very general skills and skills that apply to multiple jobs. And those are: excellent critical thinking, analytic and problem-solving skills. But equally important is having that continued desire to learn and be proactive about seeking opportunities for professional development. We are all lifelong learners and you know, having the PhD in educational psychology has been tremendous for my career. But I also need to realize how equally important and beneficial it has been to have the opportunities that I sought after I graduated to develop, further develop these skills. 

TURNER: Ok and while you were explaining that, I was thinking about what you might say about what your dissertation brought to your appeal as an applicant for this position? 

RODRIGUEZ: Oh that’s a wonderful question. And the truth is that I think my dissertation per se has no bearing on the opportunities that I have sought or the positions that I’m so honored to have. My dissertation was on the influence of bilingual text on reading comprehension. And so the way I say it, it was really a wonderful exercise for all those skills. The skills of critical thinking and research and problem-solving. Reaching out to different schools, trying to get participants for my research. Being able to synthesize all of the literature out there to do my literature review, being able to conduct the research day in, day out. Collect those results, analyze the results, make sense of the results in a critical way and put that into words in a way that a vast audience would be able to understand what I was trying to do without them having to have that knowledge of the main construct because they were well-defined in the reading. And I think all those skills are transferrable skills. But I’ve never continued the research on bilingual education or text in my day-to-day job. 

TURNER: So the dissertation was really a project on which you could display all of your abilities and skills and how to execute a large project, ongoing project?  

RODRIGUEZ: Well, I think it started because it was my passion. I’m very passionate about bilingual education and that was my focus at the time. And what you mentioned is what I realize now, years after, being able to come away with. I walked away and am realizing all those skills that I learned during the process.  

TURNER: Right and so that’s even more reason for current students to maybe get through the dissertation. I’m speaking about my own experience. *laughs* 

RODRIGUEZ: *laughs* 

TURNER: How I’d love to be done with it already… *laughs* 

RODRIGUEZ: You know, often times I’m talking to students and they’re so concerned about the subject matter, their major or their dissertation topic. And I tell them you know, take it a semester as a time, make it as simple as possible, focus and concentrate. At the end of the day you’re gaining tremendous skill beyond the subject matter that you’re researching.  

TURNER: Yeah, I think you just gave a ton of great advice right there. Ok, and what about some opportunities that maybe you participated in during graduate school that contributed to some of your professional skills that you use. And actually you have a lot of data analysis skills. I wondered if you could give us some more information about how you built those because they’re becoming more and more valuable for PhD students. 

RODRIGUEZ: Yes, that is a great question. I often find, and my advice to students, has always been you know, follow your passion but always try to gain skills that are harder skills, technical skills. Something that more and more employers want, which is this quantitative reasoning aspect and analytics. I was very fortunate and actually very intentional when I was doing my PhD. I made sure that every semester I would at least enroll in one course in the quantitative area. Whether it was research, statistics, you know, how to code using R, how to do HTML analysis. I always made sure that I signed up for those within the quant areas so I strongly recommend it.  

And it was those skills that allowed me to have a successful fellowship with the Center for Latin American and Caribbean Studies and do the research that required those skills. And it was those skills that really allowed me to be able to be a successful applicant as an analyst at Baruch College. And being a successful practitioner as I look at the patterns and analyze the data on academic outcomes and certain behavior and recruitment, etc. within enrollment. And I use, you know, I’m always doing some kind of math or statistical work. It never goes away, it’s been a tremendous help for my career. 

TURNER: So on that note, what kind of programs are you using? What kind of analyses are you doing? Are you using SPSS? What’s pretty typical in higher ed right now? 

RODRIGUEZ: That’s a great question. It depends on the area. You know, SPSS is still a major tool to use for statistical analyses but more often we have vendors come in on the market with tools that help end users to facilitate some of the analysis. For example, Tableau. Tableau will give you a platform for data visualization. And what I find most often, it’s the use of random forest as an alternative to your typical logistic regression if you will, if you’re going to be more nuanced with actual analysis. It’s always good to understand different programs. But nowadays, even in Excel, you can do some advanced analyses using advanced functions. It’s interesting because when I’m interviewing young analysts I tell them, “it’s not so much what program you know to work with, it’s more of are you able to ask for help in a way that the program will understand you. 

TURNER: That’s great advice. So I know that you have a lot of experience as a consultant here and there even though you’ve been fully employed by universities. So can you compare what it’s like working as a consultant? Because this is something that a lot of PhD graduates will be qualified to do. So what’s it like doing that versus being a full-time employee? 

RODRIGUEZ: The work is fundamentally the same, whether you’re working as an employee or a consultant. As a consultant however, you often have a specific project or charge with a fixed deadline. And another benefit of being a consultant is having a more flexible schedule. However, that is not to be confused with more free time. Many people think “oh, being a consultant is wonderful, I’m home, feet up.” No. *laughs* Or that is really different. It’s really not that different if you’re in the same field, being a consultant working in the same field. Which is why the work has been fundamentally the same. If you would want to compare if being a university employee would be better than a consultant or vice versa, I have found that they’re both equally rewarding and they really don’t have an advantage one over the other. You can always weigh your pro’s and con’s. For instance, as a consultant you are having to pay for your own health insurance, no 401k, no [inaudible]. As an employee you have those employee benefits. So it’s really a trade-off but they’re both positive experiences.  

TURNER: Great, ok. And if you are interested in doing some consulting for a university… because that might also be a good way in, right. How do you look for those kinds of opportunities? 

RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, it’s very interesting. My experience has been, as time permits you know, I consult with things related to enrollment management. So it’s related to my field and usually they’re very short-term consulting jobs. Now I’m currently at New York University. They were looking for a consultant to really oversee their student success initiatives. In particular, they were looking for someone who had experience with student business functions including admissions, registrations, student services as well as project management. And as someone had the required experiences, when I saw the posting I decided to reach out and ask for a conversation. And so it was really, truly in a sense, what others would consider a normal job search process. 

TURNER: Ok. 

RODRIGUEZ: There was a need, the posting went out, I reached out, we had a conversation and I was ultimately awarded the contract. 

TURNER: Ok, good to know. 

RODRIGUEZ: You could also look for search firms. And they often have their own consultant area within search firms. [inedible] within the area you’re interested in, whether it’s the tech industry or higher ed. And then ask to join their team and that way you don’t have to knock on doors per se to get a consulting job. But you would be allocated to a client through that main consulting firm. 

TURNER: Oh ok, have you used a search firm before? 

RODRIGUEZ: Yes, I have.  

TURNER: Oh great. Ok. So I also see on your resume that you’ve sent me that you got additional certificates after the PhD. Now what was the motivation behind those? What have they added? Was it something that was expected in your position?  

RODRIGUEZ: Yeah certainly. There are people who say, follow your passion, and there are others that say, don’t follow the passion because it often leads nowhere. But the truth of the matter is that my passion has been higher education and student success. And as you know, with more practice in the field, the more I understood that in order to be able to follow my passion, I had to understand what it required and develop the skills that would enable me to be successful. So that passion can translate into reality. And that can take many forms. You can take a course in a subject matter, you can do an internship or mentorship, you could pursue a job that would help you develop some of the skills or enhance specific skills.  

It’s important to sustain action, and that’s why after I finished the PhD I decided to look into other areas, for instance leadership development. And I completed the certificate in higher education leadership with the Hispanic Association of Colleges & Universities, also known as HACU. As well as leadership in enrollment management with the University of Southern California. And the latest certificate that I completed was a certificate of project management via the Project Management Institute, also known as P-M-I. And so I would say every couple of years or so since I graduated in 2010, I have been adding certificates to my portfolio. Just to help me further develop those skills that will help me do my job more efficiently. 

TURNER: Nice. And also with the theme of you are lifetime learner, right, a lifelong learner. 
RODRIGUEZ: Yes! I love to read, I love to write, I love to learn. It never gets old. I think, you know, it‘s really what drives innovation and it’s always good to learn new things and try new things. 

TURNER: Great, ok! Well is there anything you wanted to add? Do you have any advice for our students? 

RODRIGUEZ: Definitely. Again, I cannot stress it enough, you know. Think about your ideal job, understand what the prerequisites to be successful in the job and seek the experiences that would allow you to develop that knowledge and those skills that are required for you to be successful. Never think for a second that completing a PhD, it’s the end of it all. Always try to enhance your skills and really pursue your passion. And as I said before, try to get some understanding and develop skills in technical work and data analytics is certainly at the top of my list. 

TURNER: Ok, we can wrap up. And I want to thank you for taking the time to do the interview and we’ve gotten a lot of advice from you. Thanks so much! 

RODRIGUEZ: Thank you! My pleasure. Thank you for having me.                             

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TURNER, VOICE-OVER: Thanks again to Astrid, for talking with us about her career in higher ed admin. If you want to check out possible career options for yourself, you can make an appointment with our office by going to our website at cuny.is/careerplan. And don’t forgot to follow us on Twitter @CareerPlanGC. Thanks for listening!  

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